John 17:3 -

User Posts : 20 Join date : 2010-05-18 Location : UK

Greetings to all!

This came on another board - John 17:3:

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you - the only True God - and the one whom You sent forth, Jesus Christ"

Some faiths use this to imply that taking in knowledge (notably, sadly, the knowledge they dispense) is essential for everlasting life.

However the context of this verse (from chapter 16) is of the last supper, where Jesus is explaining that his going away to the Father is not the end of his (or their) way, but evidence that they have spent their past - and future - time wisely in following our Lord. The penny drops! and in front of them Jesus says the above words to our Father:

"THEIR (the apostles) taking in knowledge of You and me"

Without their understanding, the Christian church would never have been established. Where would we be if they had simply returned to their former jobs? Where would the new testament writings be for us?

So is Jesus really saying knowledge is essential for salvation, or were his words a prayerful encouragement and "congratulations" to his apostles now that they understood?

Christian love,

Acts5v29

Subject: Re: John 17:3 - Sun May 30, 2010 9:06 pm

Hi Cathy,

It would pay me to read the gospels more often. I guess we are saying that John 17:3 is being used in the same way as Matthew 24:45 to build a mind think around these scriptures that suits the goals of the group involved. The JW experience for me was basically academic. It suited my mind. The more ordinary rendition of simply getting to know God and Christ intimately and obviously therefore on a personal level would never have attracted me to scripture in those days. Thankfully, I’m different now, and I tend to think kindness has more value than knowledge.

One of the central directives that Jesus repeated throughout chapters 13 – 17 is that of the followers loving each other. It is crystal clear to me now how much I, and we in general, have failed miserably in this regard. We still argue like crazy people about knowledge, oblivious to the insignificance and wickedness of it, barking up the wrong tree all the time.

Whether it is in the real or the internet world, I don’t think we know how to begin to love each other, or feel a oneness with each other. My guess is that fear has truly thrown love outside.

Regards,

Brendan.

User Posts : 20 Join date : 2010-05-18 Location : UK

brendan wrote:: The JW experience for me was basically academic. It suited my mind. The more ordinary rendition of simply getting to know God and Christ intimately and obviously therefore on a personal level would never have attracted me to scripture in those days. Thankfully, I’m different now, and I tend to think kindness has more value than knowledge.

One of the central directives that Jesus repeated throughout chapters 13 – 17 is that of the followers loving each other. It is crystal clear to me now how much I, and we in general, have failed miserably in this regard. We still argue like crazy people about knowledge, oblivious to the insignificance and wickedness of it, barking up the wrong tree all the time.

Hi Brendan John 17:3 - Icon_cheers

That's hit the nail right on the head hasn't it. Isn't it funny - you went there (as many do) for knowledge, but the life-giving thing was in your hands all along. That's wonderful - the one mediator saw the valuable thing in you.

Funny on your talking of people not knowing how to love each other - how right you are. There is more vehement dislike, even hatred, amongst Christians through tiny differences in belief than there is between the average Everton / Liverpool fan - why, I wonder, has the world less capacity to hate in that regard than the world of worship? (rhetorical question) I suppose because there is no holiness attached to football, and those who aspire to holiness in worship do not want to share it with others.

Still - you're here! Derek's here and others! There are plenty who value love of God in others without worrying about even large differences in sincere belief. I'm sure that love is out there amongst the more quiet or lay-back ones (hi Beau!), it's just that hatred shouts loudly where love merely smiles in admiration.

Christian love as always,

Cathy

Subject: Re: John 17:3 - Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:45 am

Hi Cathy,

I had had a long experience dealing with mental problems and the pursuit of sanity became very important to me. So I searched for logic and reason in the scriptures before it dawned on me what it was really about. Nonetheless, in ordinary everyday life, I still have my antenna up for foul language - word deleted, especially when it is important. I’m willing to let a lot of the foul language - word deleted slide (now there’s a picture) but there’s a limit.

I think the thing I most dislike these days is the lack of sincerity. I have to admire people who fight their corner with great passion even if I think they are very wrong.

I think it was Abe who suggested we stop discussing topics in the adversarial way and get together to get to the root of complicated issues. I guess that could only be done if the only agenda anyone had was to get to the truth, and not their version of it.

I haven’t spent much time in England but I was over in Coventry years ago when my younger brother lived there. He took me to a Coventry/Millwall match and I was shocked by the hatred between the fans. They had to be sectioned off from each other with huge netting between the stands. That was before I knew anything about forums and learned what real hatred was like!

It’s just about treating your fellowman in the same way we like to be treated, I guess. And it all disappears in fits of ego. I’m amazed at how, right from the time we are children, we are sent to be educated in how to compete with each other. It is pretty weird to watch the world get less kind and see people just view each other as getting in the way in everything from traffic jams, dole queues and promotions at work. Our leaders are either blind to the dynamics behind it, or, ore cynically, they know darn well but it suits them to promote a system that favours them.

So I think we Christians are polluting our own oases. I hope we realise it before it is too late and we tear strips off each other. Have you ever seen those British TV police shows like The Bill where the police are meaner to their colleagues than the criminals are? That’s us, I think. That’s a lot of needless stress.

Still, where there’s life, there’s hope, and I do hope and pray that we realise that we need to support each other against the great enemy – spiritual negativity.

Regards,
Brendan.

» John Lennon