Humility – Profit from Loss

Subject: Humility – Profit from Loss Tue May 18, 2010 3:00 am

If you've gotten anything at all out of following Christ, if his love has made any difference in your life, if being in a community of the Spirit means anything to you, if you have a heart, if you care-- then do me a favor: Agree with each other, love each other, be deep-spirited friends. Don't push your way to the front; don't sweet-talk your way to the top. Put yourself aside, and help others get ahead. Don't be obsessed with getting your own advantage. Forget yourselves long enough to lend a helping hand. Think of yourselves the way Christ Jesus thought of himself. He had equal status with God but didn't think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status no matter what. Not at all. When the time came, he set aside the privileges of deity and took on the status of a slave, became human! Having become human, he stayed human. It was an incredibly humbling process. He didn't claim special privileges. Instead, he lived a selfless, obedient life and then died a selfless, obedient death--and the worst kind of death at that: a crucifixion. Because of that obedience, God lifted him high and honoured him far beyond anyone or anything, ever, so that all created beings in heaven and on earth--even those long ago dead and buried--will bow in worship before this Jesus Christ, Php 2:1-10 (Message)

According to these verses, Jesus humbled himself that in the end all ‘will bow in worship before this Jesus Christ’. This sounds lovely. In the business world, it might be reduced to a cost/benefit analysis.

Cost: loss of dignity, loss of life
Benefit: increased dignity and power

Net Loss or Gain: What did Christ achieve? What is the connection between loss and gain?

Sincerely,
Brendan.

User Posts : 339 Join date : 2010-05-12

I think I see what you are getting at.

I have been a bit unerved, on occasion, for the last 2 years or so, as regards the way my country is "turning", so to speak. I can envision a scenario in which a catastrophe, be it accidental or by careful planning, occurs and the "land of the free" experiences a brief period of Anarchy. In such a situation, I find myself thinking about 'how would I defend myself or my family' should something like this arise? Do I buy a gun, and stock up on bulletts? That is most certainly my first inclination, and I know fer sure there are ALLOT of people over here "packing heat". I must be the only dude in the Plains States that doesnt have an aresenal hidden somewhere in/on their property.

Ive come to the conclusion that if I obtain a firearm for self defense purposes, I really have made a "game changer", if you will, as regards my faith. As such, I just cant do it.

The cost/benefit to this decision is a big one to ponder.

Am I willing to give up my life in the name of Jesus, because Jesus has spoke to me at Matt 5:43-48, and Rev 13:10 and has clearly told ME that MY path is one of complete and total non-violence?

Subject: Re: Humility – Profit from Loss Fri May 21, 2010 1:00 am

Hi Matt,

That was the last thing on my mind but I’m delighted you mentioned this issue. I’ve been in the predicament; the family lived through threat to our very lives for several years. I turned to the Lord and I desperately tried to import a gun. I was, as Robert DeNiro said in Analyse This, ‘very conflicted about it’. In constant fear, I made all the supplications that a lad brought up on Proverbs 3:5,6 could be expected to make. Then, in anger, I just wanted to kill the first person past my door. I worried for years about the impending attack, and when it happened, it was so fast and furious that this middle-aged man could only reel in disbelief at how powerless I was to defend myself, never mind my family, against several young, fit men who were armed with golf clubs and hell bent on doing as much damage to property and as much personal injury as they could. Basically, I was emasculated, period. But I learned a powerful moral lesson from all this. The heck I did, I’m still as confused as ever!

What you say about the arsenals is very true. Several members of my wife’s family had huge amounts of weaponry. It was nothing strange to have the NWT on the dash and a gun in the glove-box. I begged for just one of those weapons. But the laws that came in after 9/11 frightened them off.

I hope that if there must be a next time, I can do the right thing. But I would sleep so much more comfortably with a pistol under the pillow.

Regards,
Brendan.

User Posts : 20 Join date : 2010-05-18 Location : UK

Propmin wrote:: I find myself thinking about 'how would I defend myself or my family' should something like this arise?

Ive come to the conclusion that if I obtain a firearm for self defense purposes, I really have made a "game changer", if you will, as regards my faith. As such, I just cant do it.

Brendan wrote:: I worried for years about the impending attack, and when it happened, it was so fast and furious that this middle-aged man could only reel in disbelief at how powerless I was to defend myself

Sounds a little like the "good-old days" of the blood issue - remember them? When a wise and senior elder would speak to an enthusiastic young witness-to-be - intent on getting their "NO BLOOD" card - and reminding them that it is very, very different when a life-and-death situation actually arises. I don't think anyone would criticise you Bren or and only the most antiseptic and unfeeling would speak of lack of faith; real live fear is the world's best Hypnotist especially where family is involved.

All the same, PropMin, I love that phrase - "Game-Changer" That's great! In a way, you're fore-armed with that, aren't you!

Quote :: Think of yourselves the way Christ Jesus thought of himself.
...
Net Loss or Gain: What did Christ achieve? What is the connection between loss and gain?

I recall that our Lord had his share of trouble, but you're right - for all his teaching and miracles, he gave all credit to Almighty God. There was nothing in him for anyone to steal or envy or be jealous of - in worldly sense - he really did channel God's spirit beautifully! The only attackers - only attackers - killed him because they knew him to be God's annointed king, usurping their authority. Even some of them knew they were really hypocrites and shuddered at God's clear spirit in him.

You're right Bren, we can do the same. We're not kings - so we're no threat to anyone - and I honestly think that it will give the same protection to us as it did to him.

Acts5v29

Subject: Re: Humility – Profit from Loss Thu May 27, 2010 3:01 pm

Hi guys,

I must admit that I never thought that I would ever have to make serious decisions like this in my Christian life. I thought that we read about significant folk in Bible history who did powerful works to help move God’s will forward, and Satan did all in his power to stop them. So what would that type of thing ever have to do with me? I thought that even in the end times, if anyone was killed for their faith, it would be because they refused to follow the beast and the antichrist. So I can’t understand the point of what happened to me and my family, when you consider how insignificant we are in the scheme of things. Why is our passive, quiet expression of the Christian life bothering people so much? I just don’t get it.

But when I started this thread, I had the juxtaposition of humility and honour in mind, and the possible moral connection between the two seemingly opposite states. It seemed very important that Jesus learned humility before being crowned in glory. On a very small level, we were warned to take the back seat at public events, in the hope that someday we may be offered a place closer to the top without having to push it ourselves.

Regards,
Brendan.

User Posts : 20 Join date : 2010-05-18 Location : UK

brendan wrote:: Hi guys,

I must admit that I never thought that I would ever have to make serious decisions like this in my Christian life. I thought that we read about significant folk in Bible history who did powerful works to help move God’s will forward, and Satan did all in his power to stop them. So what would that type of thing ever have to do with me? I thought that even in the end times, if anyone was killed for their faith, it would be because they refused to follow the beast and the antichrist. So I can’t understand the point of what happened to me and my family, when you consider how insignificant we are in the scheme of things. Why is our passive, quiet expression of the Christian life bothering people so much? I just don’t get it.

But when I started this thread, I had the juxtaposition of humility and honour in mind, and the possible moral connection between the two seemingly opposite states. It seemed very important that Jesus learned humility before being crowned in glory. On a very small level, we were warned to take the back seat at public events, in the hope that someday we may be offered a place closer to the top without having to push it ourselves.

Regards,
Brendan.

Hi Bren

It's easy for me with my long-distance 20-20 hind-sight, but I'm not surprised you were hit like this. You've got something others haven't, and - like Jesus - if it can't be acquired it is attacked. I dearly hope that those people you mentioned will, in their private moments, succumb to the initial admiration for your good friendship with the Heavens which envy very quickly blotted from their hearts. God bless you and yours, because I know it's hard on you, but your lifestyle will have set them thinking on spirituality in a new direction. I'm sure the more they ponder, the safer you'll be.

Isn't it odd to be warned to take a back seat? Most Christians do that anyway. I wonder why those giving the warning aren't afraid to be striding forward. And strange in another way because many Christians whom I know would certainly still follow our Lord even if there were no future life for them - goodness is simply worth following! So a warning about the risk to future benefits just doesn't work really does it. Anyway, if we're moving forward ourselves, it's quite nice to see others advance ahead spiritually ahead of us. I see plenty ahead of me!

(some think they see me ahead, but they're looking the wrong way Humility – Profit from Loss Affraid

)

Cathy (Acts5v29)

User Posts : 364 Join date : 2010-05-02

Graham Kendrick song taken from Paul's words

All I once held dear, built my life upon,
All this world reveres and wars to own;
All I once thought gain I have counted loss,
Spent and worthless now compared to this.

CHORUS:
Knowing You, Jesus, knowing You
There is no greater thing.
You're my all, You're the best,
You're my joy, my righteousness,
And I love You Lord.

Now my heart's desire is to know You more,
To be found in You and know as Yours,
To possess by faith what I could not earn
All surpassing gift of righteousness

Oh to know the power of Your risen life,
And to know You in Your sufferings;
To become like You in Your death, my Lord,
So with You to live and never die.